Please note the previous two entries before reading this item:
Who brought down the Twin Towers? A bunch of crazy Arabs, that's who.
Controlled demolitions, thermite and YOU.
Back yet? Ok, let's continue.
So - I felt the need (after another brave Anonymous "truther" kept me up until 3 am reading a psuedo-scientific paper) to put a final stamp on this topic before moving on. Last night, I was forced to actually delve into Niels Harrit's magical mystery tour and actually address the "facts" that were presented within it once and for all. It unfortunately turns out that despite the hopes of the conspiracy people that the more I "search for the truth" the more I will turn to their side...the more I read about this the LESS convinced I am that there is any merit whatsoever to this study.
Here's the abstract from the report if you don't feel like downloading/reading the entire thing (which I could hardly blame you for):
We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.
It's hard for me...or anyone with a modicum of common sense to take this report seriously when the items they based this report on were given to them by residents of Lower Manhattan almost SIX YEARS after the Towers fell. These samples were not kept in sterile environments by any stretch of the imagination and were handled by ordinary, non-scientist New Yorkers.
Referring to these samples, the report itself states the following:
The resulting spectrum, shown in Fig. (14), produced the expected peaks for Fe, Si, Al, O, and C. Other peaks included calcium, sul-fur, zinc, chromium and potassium. The occurrence of these elements could be attributed to surface contamination due to the fact that the analysis was performed on the as-collected surface of the red layer. The large Ca and S peaks may be due to contamination with gypsum from the pulverized wall-
board material in the buildings.
So by their own admission the scientists are saying that in SIX YEARS that the samples, which were hanging out in lay peoples' homes they MAY have been contaminated. Wow, really?
The paper also never actually says that material in question is nanothermite or even regular thermite...rather that...
These observations reminded us of nano-thermite fabricated at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory and elsewhere
So it REMINDED them of a substance that no one aside for 9/11 conspiracy people apparently knows anything about. Can they conclusively say exactly what it is? Well...
We would like to make detailed comparisons of the red chips with known super-thermite composites, along with comparisons of the products following ignition, but there are many forms of this high-tech thermite, and this comparison must wait for a future study.
...not really. You see they can't really get their hands on this nano stuff because we're not sure it really exists. Ok. And further...
All these data suggest that the thermitic material found in the WTC dust is a form of nano-thermite
How incredibly conclusive! I have some suggestions of my own. Well at least they're not jumping to any conclusions right?
We make no at-tempt to specify the particular form of nano-thermite present until more is learned about the red material and especially about the nature of the organic material it contains.
Why bother making an attempt to actually identify this substance, right?
Well that's ok, at least we know for sure it's not paint chips right? Well of course not! Because...
we have shown that the red material contains both elemental aluminum and iron oxide
Oh. I see. There's iron oxide (rust) and aluminum in this mixture. There's no WAY that rust or aluminum could possibly have gotten into the Twin Towers. Except of course that the Twin Towers had tons upon tons of aluminum and every building in history that had iron it also had oxidized iron (rust) in it.
How totally convincing. It's stunning even! How could anyone ignore this incredibly conclusive evidence!
The material they found, that had been contaminated over six years, reminded them of nanothermite or regular thermite but probably nanothermite no really it's almost definitely the nano kind. Or it might be just regular paint. Except that it also has rust and aluminum in it. Which may be a result of the contamination or it may just be because those two substances are present in just about every structure in the history of construction.
What's even better though, is that the inconclusiveness of this paper (and it's really stunningly inconclusive) aside...it doesn't answer any of the following issues I've raised in my previous entries:
-How did they got 10 to 100 tons of this highly dangerous substance into three buildings right under the noses of the very people they were going to kill?
-How did they detonate this substance? Was it a timer? Remote control? Telepathy?
-How did they know exactly where the planes were going to hit in order to plant the explosives in a way that would make it seem that the structure of the building gave way right around the point of impact? Because that's what it looked like to me. Also that's what it looked like to the rest of the world.
-Perhaps most importantly...if this material is as highly explosive and reactive as everyone says it is, why didn't it explode as soon as it came in contact with the burning hot flaming jet fuel that exploded all around it? Why didn't the buildings collapse immediately after the planes hit? Did this substance just decide to wait to react to the fire?
-100 other issues I've brought up about this conspiracy.
Now it's not surprising that this paper doesn't deal with any of this...aside from the fact that the writers all live in a parallel universe where plutonium is available at every corner drugstore
and addressing these issues would force them to come back to reality, this is a scientific study that is meant to address one simple question:
IS THERE NANOTHERMITE IN THE DUST/RUBBLE THAT USED TO BE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER?
And the answer...is a resounding "MAYBE? UHHH AT LEAST WE THINK IT COULD BE."
Like I've said previously, I'm not a scientist. I'm not a structural engineer. I may be completely off-base with my analysis of their methods but the one thing I AM good with is common sense. If you want to ignore the fact that this scam would be impossible to pull off in reality (especially in the reality of a world with internet and a 24/7 TV news cycle) without someone finding out that's one thing. But if you're really going to jump just because some Danish physicist and a bunch of sociologists and psychologists told you they MAY have found something that they still have no proof could actually knock down a building and would be entirely unqualified to comment on even if they did...then God bless you but I can't be bothered to show you why you're wasting your time.
I've already spent enough time on this and while it was kind of fun living in the Wonderland for a week or so,
Israel Independence Day (Yom Ha'atzmaut) is coming up and I should have my hands full with the real issues. I'll still respond to comments when they come up as I'm sure fans of this topic will continue to haunt me the same way that Ben Wedeman and Jon Stewart fans continue to pop up on occasion and send me fun little emails. It's interesting by the way what topics continue to generate traffic months and even years after I post them, but that's a whole different topic entirely.
Anyway, to the 9/11 conspiracy people I say it's been real, it's been nice...but it hasn't been real nice.
I want the last week of my life back...
UPDATE: Two major new developments concerning this topic can be found clicking here. Apparently the editor of the journal this paper was published in, has resigned in protest and the methodology for these experiments was botched in several ways.
Sunday, April 19, 2009
A final word on Niels Harrit, nanothermite, 9/11 "truth" and basic common sense
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 241 of 241hmmmm Ph Ds, or asshole bloggers.. hmmm people who have papers in best peer edited scientific journal... or asshole blogger... curious indeed.. who is more credible..one more time... college educated chemist...or asshole blogger. bein a durn stoopid truther ima gonna hafta say that this here asshole blogger aint so smrt after all!
why dont you folks take a look at each of these peoples credentials before you believe this guy.
Ron and Mark, you never addressed my points
the judges ARE zionist jews. Hellerstein and Mukasey are zionist jews who have connections to israel. OBVIOUSLY this is a conflict of interest
the 9/11 WTC security firm Kroll Associates are zionist jews. WTC security would have the capability of putting the nano-thermite in the buildings
the airport security company is an israeli company
WHO put in the nano-thermite in the WTC????? WE KNOW it was in the buildings, it was found in the dust. WHO put it there? Did Kroll Associates have something to do with it?
How did Mossad agent Harel predict accurately 9/11, 25 years before it happened????
[ truther said...
hmmmm Ph Ds, or asshole bloggers.. hmmm people who have papers in best peer edited scientific journal... or asshole blogger... curious indeed.. who is more credible..one more time... college educated chemist...or asshole blogger. bein a durn stoopid truther ima gonna hafta say that this here asshole blogger aint so smrt after all!
why dont you folks take a look at each of these peoples credentials before you believe this guy. ]
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. Exactly man.
it has been 100% proven that nano-thermite was in the WTC buildings. This is real proof of false-flag terrorism
this asshole blogger indeed, just keeps ignoring this over and over and over again.
that REAL SCIENCE, peer-reviewed science, with independent samples, has conclusively found nano-thermite in the WTC dust.
and what does this talmudic jew do? LIE and lie to the goyim over and over and over
I know the Talmud, i know it is anti-goy, anti-gentile. Israel Shahak wrote 2 books about the anti-goy nature of Judaism. This is all known for honest scholars. We KNOW what Talmudic Judaism entails: lie to the goyim, cheat and steal and kill the goyim. All these permissions ARE THERE in the Talmud, as proven by Judaic hebrew scholar Israel Shahak
that's what the Mossad operates on: The Talmud. Cheat and lie to the goyim, frame the goyim
king david hotel bombing, USS Liberty, Lavon Affair, berlin disco bombing by a bogus 'radio transmitter' from Libya as documented by Ostrovsky, etc etc etc...
the Mossad PIONEERED false-flag operations, that's what they're good at: framing the goyim
Sir, in all of your debunking, you fail to address the 2 most obvious facts. Which, once addressed make this understandable to a 5-yr. old.
1. Fire has not ever fully collapsed any steel frame skyscraper in the history of the world - only explosives fully collapse and melt the steel in skyscrapers.
2. Building-7, which was not struck by anything other than inert debris, collapsed in free fall many hours later. A moron can see that there is only one way this building could collapse as it did.
There is no other explanation, either sensible, or incredible that can explain these two facts other than the use of some form of pre-installed explosive. It may very well not have been nano-thermite as suggested... but don't you think it's worth finding out what it was?
There was thermitic material there. It was there. That's just the plain and sad fact.
You haven't a clue as to what type of thermitic materials were developed by the military and private industry by 2000 and that's obvious. Neither do I. Whatever they had developed, traces were found afterwards making it a state sponsored act of terrorism.
Your job is to protect that state and frankly you're not doing a very good job of it. You couldn't possibly because lies don't make accurate counter arguments to the truth.
Jeff I don't have to disprove the "fact" that there was "thermitic material" (I thought it was NANOTHERMITE particles, not just "thermitic material" which can be found at just about any construction site where they cut metal) because the AUTHORS themselves recanted their entire story -- admitting that even if it was nanothermite (which it WASN'T) that it wouldn't be enough to knock down the buildings.
Look it up, I've posted links to these statements on this blog or google it if you don't believe me. I'm done with repeating the same statement over and over again. You don't like what I have to say? Have a word with your heroes because THEY'RE the ones saying it.
All of you get back to me when you have some new information, re-debating the same arguments 100 times won't change their final result. I'm not responding to your assertions because I already have (oftentimes WITHIN the very comments section you're responding to).
Holy cow! I just read thru a few of the comments on this story, Ron.
You have my sympathies for having to rebut the same lame, ignorant points ad infinitum.
I know how it feels, believe me. I've dedicated a youtube channel to rebutting some of the myths of 9/11 Truth.
You will find some of my original videos there.
You can visit at:
www.youtube.com/user/AlienEntity1
Thank you for persisting with your blog, every little bit of sanity helps when dealing with this subject.
I'm sorry you can't diss a scientific paper with a blog. This is just so much ad hominen. It's no way a "final" anything. Sorry. You still don't explain how WTC7 could have collapse leaving all that molten metal at its base or the 1000+ architects and enginneers that disagree with you.
Hello my name is Ed. I am an 18 year old college student. I was very young when the 9/11 attacks occured and was immediately subdued by the growing nationalism that occured immediately after 9/11. Now that I am older I have read the 9/11 Commission report and numerous other resources under my own research and have found the government's official story is full of misinformation, obvious omissions, and strange conclusions.
All conspiarcy evidence is meant to do is to enlighten people that the government has not explored every possible scenario in which the 9/11 attacks occurred. People like Niles Harrit simply want to know why there was no testing of WTC dust for possible explosive residue. The fact of the matter is that the NIST and other government agencies have yet to release all of the evidence including footage that was confiscated etc.. If Obama really believes in the transparency of government then he will re-investigate 9/11 and release aforementioned info.
In conclusion the devil is in the details. And if the government cannot answer questions with the near unlimited resources it has then obviously something is being hidden in plain sight.
Hello,
"When you claim that the samples collected were only collected after 6 years, you lost credibility. I doubt very much that you read the paper. In the paper, the scientists have stated the dust collected came from 4 sources, picked up from the next day,(Sept 12, 2001) to 2 weeks later. To claim otherwise suggests you didn't read that part of the paper, and you put the rest of your tiresome post in doubt. "
And I doubt the credibility of at least one of the collectors. I made a quick search on the website of the "scholars for 9/11 truth and justice" and discovered the Jeanette MacKinley is a member of that organization. She collected one of the examined samples.
Greetings
Klaus
Great call Klaus, I didn't even realize that part. Another thing I didn't realize - how obsessive truthers are that they still can't let this go over a year after it was published and subsequently discredited by the VERY PEOPLE WHO AUTHORED it.
Dr. Harris, the Danish scholar that made a 18 month research about the presence of nanothermite in the dust from the towers.. is a fake, but a very well organized fake.
If you think about it, with the appearance of Russia Today and all, this can only be a distraction element.
Why?:
Look at the bibliography on the research.. he uses anti-conspirationist websites mostly. I realized when I made the search in Google "Nilsen Harris" "University of Denmark"
Results: 0
How, he surely has published numerous research on physics, etc.
I even went through the list of personnel of the University... nothing.
So, one more distraction and occassion to sink theTruth movement failed..watch out, friends!
Clearly this guy hasn't a clue. Just one of those guys throws about quotations hoping no one reads them.
For example: "One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later."
Yet you pull something about finding them 6 years later out of your ass.
Suprise, suprise, dust from the destroyed building is in the sample.
Normal thermite you can make at home! and detonate/activate with magnesium!
The fact they researched for 6 years and took 2 years to write the paper seems lost to you.
You over analyze the scientific language. Until something has been tested millions of times and reviewed by other peers, scientists won't jump to saying "oh we're absolutely certain" only religion is so black and white.
Im a building engineer and when i saw the chips it reminded me of paint used to protect steel from the fire. Its highly reactive and foams up a little to protect the steel.
I must agree with Ronmossad here. In my opnion it's just not possible you find a loaded gun after 10 years when you had it in your hands from day 1. Its not a loaded gun, its not even a smoking gun. It MIGHT be tiny lil pieces of a 10 year old gun. I wud say...where is the proof? How much was found? Did someone else do research after this mysterious stuff? (someone not being paided by Steve)etc etc....
Hello,
well you apparently did not listen to the video - not that it's the only one meanwhile.
Harrit never said that the nanothermite "exploded" the towers. He said there were rests of explosives found, nanothermite AND others (sic). The nanothermite is just the reason why they were able to collapse.
The center steel structures were weakened by this nanothermite, minutes before explosions took place, and his investigation is backed up by witness reports speaking of the metal flowing out at the bases.
OT: It usually helps to think about who gains the most of a situation, as well i suggest to look for "Gladio".
Thanks
Nanothermite is a highly engineered substance that can only be made in a very few facilities in the entire world. It is not produced by pounding aluminum and rust together. These facts and the fact that there are holes and contradictions throughout EVERY aspect of the "official" conspiracy theories of 9/11 from the 9/11 Commission, NIST and FEMA reports makes it clear that a new, impartial, scientific investigation into the events of 9/11 is needed to answer the hundreds of questions that have not yet been answered. Don't you think we owe it to the nearly 3,000 people who died at the WTC, including 343 firefighters and the families of these victims to have a legitimate investigation carried out? A REAL investigation would have powers of contempt and subpoena. That is something that has not happened yet. It is time to bring the cover up and illegal destruction of evidence, as well as the demonization of those seeking the truth to light and begin a new investigation into 9/11.
But their paper and the processes utilized have not been properly peer reviewed and both co-authors have pre-existing agenda as conspiracy theorists which places their scientific objectivity in doubt. That's right, we know the agenda of Jones but his Dutch counterpart stated in an interview he rejected any possibility of the events as explained in the official story.
So how does this leave these "scientists" as entering their experiments looking to prove anything BUT that was thermitic material, and manipulating reactions to produce results they seek?
There is this fallacy that if academia does not jump to refute this paper it is factual truth, but it doesn't work that way. It was published in a journal of ill repute in the first place and the scientific community already knows what a laughingstock Jones has made of himself in his profession.
Pursuing discredit of that paper is dignifying it with a response.
So as it stands one cannot factually state nanothermite was found in dust from the towers.
Everything else you've got is rhetoric.
Motivation is not evidence.
Opportunity is not evidence.
Distrust and contempt of government is not evidence.
Demanding investigation after investigation until one ends the way you like because you think you found a hole and can make swiss cheese of the official story is the height of absurdity and I will tell you why, sir:
We're then going to put the official story of truthers on parade and start poking holes in it like they've been doing for 9 years.
It won't be holes we'll be poking. It will be nano sized particles that will be all that's left on the ground of it.
How many talking points have truthers tried to promote which were destroyed by elementary logic? All of them, really, like the "pull it" thing, and pretending some mystery surrounded WTC7 when they suppressed the common knowledge the building was seen leaning, creaking, groaning, hours before? Just like the towers were seen to be bulging minutes before hand on the damaged floors?
Shifting positions, backpedalling from previous claims and clinging on to a final straw that some dubious research concludes something MAY have been something which could have a role in this only in cartoon world, is NOT anything resembling justice nor the Lux et Veritas you feign as raison d'etre for you and your brethren.
It merely screws all our collective heads more firmly into the fudgesocket.
Progress. It's over.
John in San Diego
diogenes, if you're suggesting the blog owner is not qualified to comment on this issue why the hell are we supposed to give any weight to YOUR opinion?
Note about your comment of "credentials" those of Jones were effectively revoked by the issuing authority- the administration and faculty of BYU- upon his promotion of his beliefs in the community of his peers.
Regardless of that scientific credentials and accolades earned early in ones' career do not make anyone immune to the human faults of allowing emotions to destroy your objectivity and logic.
9/11 hurt us all deeply in many ways. Some searched for answers in directions that were ill conceived.
Dear Ron,
I'm a demolition man and i just thought i would let you know that steel frame buildings cannot collapse into their own footprint without the use of demolition explosives taking out the structural columns at every floor.
The only reason their is a conspiracy theory is because the US government would not allow a fit and proper investigative team to analyse the event.
I have no idea whether or not their was an zionist connection. i do know that there would have had to have been an extensive US government involvement because it would have taken years to plan and implement the demolition strategy.
Dear Ron,
Regarding your header comment "THE WHOLE WORLD IS AGAINST US, NEVERMIND WE'LL OVERCOME"
The reason why the majority of people are against the zionist regime is because after fighting a massive war at great human cost. The world defeated the Nazi regime whose main philosophy was liebensraum (living room) for the german people. Then within a couple of years the zionists decided to repeat the same mistake and create a liebensraum of their own. Again millions of people died, were evicted from their home and country and left to suffer the indignity of a life in a refugee camp.
Lets face it... If i did that i would realistically expect eternal hellfire and the eternal wrath of my victims.
So you see... Anyone involved in the zionist philosophy, whether you are a supporter or a murderer, will have to create an excellent justification for when you meet your creator.
Best of British luck to you, however, i don't hold out much hope for you unless you decide to repent.
Its not too late...
"steel frame buildings cannot collapse into their own footprint without the use of demolition explosives taking out the structural columns at every floor."
Or 20+ floors of the building's own weight taking them out as it goes down.
But this nonsense about "own footprint" is just that. Bldg 7 was hit by a huge piece of one of the towers- and if you are implying conversely the building should have remained largely intact and fell over on its side you have no knowledge of skyscraper engineering. Here's what caused it to fall into its own footprint, wrong as it is but you believe: GRAVITY.
@batvette
"Or 20+ floors of the building's own weight taking them out as it goes down."
Yep... Still won't do it...
I have a good understanding of skyscraper engineering and demolition... (16 years in the game) and i will reiterate that steel frame buildings do not collapse into their own footprint.
If i wanted to demolish a steel frame building and i decided to blow the columns out of the top half of the building, then the bottom half of the building would remain. A mess, sure, but structurally intact.
This did not happen. Added to that the building was designed to withstand a plane impact. Surely the engineers are guilty of gross incompetence and should face criminal prosecution. Alas, they did not because no official enquiry has been held as yet.
Just thought i would let you know..
"Designed to withstand a plane impact".
Danny, come back to the table of discussion when you are up to speed with the rest of the group on knowledge. I'm giving you a break and assuming your error is ignorance, not intellectual (or other) dishonesty.
The WTC design parameters called for a 707, empty on fuel, loitering, lost in fog, at just above stall speed or around 150 knots. Similar to the event during WW2 at the empire state building.
What happened on 9/11 was an airplane considerably heavier, made even heavier with enough fuel for a continental flight, travelling about 3.5 times that speed. The difference in absorbed kinetic energy is staggering, and the theoretical models did not expect the full load of fuel burning for an extended period after this increased energy knocked off so much fireproofing material and took out so many columns.
Your "demolition" example is flawed. What if you blow out the middle of the building and the mass of the top becomes like a hammer?
@batvette
"Your "demolition" example is flawed. What if you blow out the middle of the building and the mass of the top becomes like a hammer?"
No its not... All three buildings collapsed in the direction of maximum resistance. Without a demolition strategy, this is impossible. Your theory states that the structural steel evaporated at the base of the towers and through its entire height. I'm here to tell you that it didn't because that breaks all laws of physics. The planes could not even shear through the structural core of the towers at its weakest point, nevermind evaporate the steel at the base of the tower 400m away from the impact. Also, the steel would need to have evaporated at a uniform rate throughout the length of the building for your weird theory to work.
Also, your theory would need the impact to have completely stripped the entire building of fireproofing and you know as well as i do that it didn't.
"What if you blow out the middle of the building and the mass of the top becomes like a hammer?"
Imagine a hammer and nail and then scale the nail up the size of the tower. You end up with a massive hammer.
But let us continue with the hammer and nail theory (even though you go from kinetic to potential energy without explanation). Let us say that the plane sheared through 50% of the structural columns. So let us cut out 50% of the thickness of the nail approx 75% up the height of the nail. Then get your scaled up hammer and apply the force that you calculate you will need. What happens to the nail? Your theory states it will disintegrate. Physics states deformation will occur.
PS. You do not need to give me any breaks. You need to take a break and think about the nonsense you are spewing up in the name of intelligence and honesty. Also, you are lying to yourself. Why do that? Piss poor strategy...
Excellent blog!!
Regardsss
The issue of when the samples were turned over would ordinarily be important.. but in this case, it's ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT.
What's being implied is that these samples could have been compromised.. HOW!?
Do you really mean to suggest that the people supplying these samples were capable of manufacturing military grade nano-thermite in their apartments at home?? We're talking about a military grade incendiary made with elemental particles 1/10,000th the size of a human hair.. Yeah.. good luck manufacturing that in your kitchen!
Further, are you suggesting that not only were they capable of creating military grade nanothermite without access to a military grade facility.. it's also being insinuated that they the super human providers of these samples were so deranged and nefarious that they also were inclined to intentionally add their homemade nano-thermite into the dust just to knowingly frame the U.S. government for something it hadn't done??
Both insinuations are absolutely ridiculous and without merit. Bottom line, if nano-thermite was found in the WTC dust, regardless of when the samples were turned over, it's an irrefutable fact that this nano-thermite had to ALWAYS have been there. END OF STORY.
p.s. I'd like any of you brainiacs that think truthers have it wrong to offer a scientific explanation that fits into the official story for how a molybdenum rich spherule was found in the WTC dust by the USGS.. The fact that it was purified and separated from it's original alloy shows that the other elements in the alloy had been burned off.. the fact that it was spherical in shape proves that the molybdenum had reached its molten state at which point the natural surface temperature pulled into a sphere.. MOLYBDENUM NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT TO OVER 4750ºF TO MELT.
Which explains why the USGS refrained from publishing this discovery in their first report that they released to the public. The only way that we know about this molybdenum rich spherule was because some "Truther" was astute and suspicious enough to SUE the USGS via the Freedom of Information Act.. They won their case and the USGS was forced to release the rest of their information that they had initially witheld from the public including this discovery.. but keep dreaming and telling yourselves that "there's no cover-up".
I meant to say that its natural surface TENSION pulled the molybdenum into the spherical shape that it was found in.. but it's also true that it's surface "temperature" pulled it into this shape so.. ;o)
The samples are irrelevant because the "scientists" who posited they found nanothermite in them were avowed truthers who only approached the matter with the intent of one predetermined outcome. This thing is such a big deal, how come no other scientists have duplicated their work?
And grand spectacular claims based solely on the size of particles is just silly. The building was almost entirely constructed of iron and aluminum- the latter and iron oxide (rust) being the primary components of thermite. With the enormous level of kinetic energy unleashed, it is not unreasonable to assume some of it would be turned into debris of an uncommon size, and only that of the smallest size would be expected to be carried 10 blocks or more away from the scene.
Much ado about nothing.
@socratica:
The "nails" did not disintegrate. Most of the debris was quite large in size.
But I don't have to explain this, read it here:
http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm
Do you know what is funny, aside from your sarcasm and hilarious pictures, the fact that you never address why the Bush government shipped off most of the debris.
The Bush administration never allowed any proper debate about the insanity of that day. Either you accepted the official story (like WMD remember?) or you were anti-American.
The 9/11 Commission never countenanced that perhaps bombs brought down the towers and WTC 7. That is not a proper investigation.
Which brings me back to your sarcasm about the people of NYC handing over some debris from the 9/11 mess. At least they tried to get some proper analysis done, instead of shipping it off to Asia for disposal. Why not make some sarcastic observations about that fact?
For example, "Hey we have just lost 3000 people in what appears to be a terrorist attack - so let us ship off the evidence before it can be examined."
Watching the videos, the WTC buildings are collapsing straight down. Your commonsense should be screaming that it at least SEEMS like a demolision. You probably believed in WMD and probably still hold that the government did not lie.
These guys (Cheney, Rumsfeld et al) lamented the fact that they needed a "New Pearl Harbor" before they could properly implement their "Project for a New American Century" That is not a conspiracy - it is down on record.
You just do not get it. You are a funny guy and I genuinely laugh at your attempts to discredit people who question the Official Conspiracy Theory. But the tide is turning against you.
I am afraid the 9/11 thermite evidence is not going away...
http://www.presstv.com/detail/190668.html
I looked at the Richard Gage interview on thermite.
He says of WTC7:
"It fell suddenly, smoothly, consistently, straight down, symmetrically, as fast as a bowling ball falling off the top of this building. This can't happen by office fires - especially the small office fires that were seen coming from that building. So what can account for freefall acceleration? The only thing that can account for it is the removal of those columns all at once; 80 columns on up to eight floors because that's the distance over which this freefall period happened."
I wouldn't characterize this as "small office fires":
http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_fire.html
Scroll down to the bottom for some pretty impressive pics and video of the fire.
He also claims that the official story is flawed because it doesn't account for molten steel in the basement of the building:
"The problem is that they haven't even seen the evidence; they haven't seen the molten metal in the basement or in the debris pile of WTC 7. Evidence of temperatures that exceed what office fires can produce by a factor of two. There is molten iron flowing like lava - the first responders see it; the engineers see it, the cleanup workers see it. It's well documented and yet NIST denies it. Why? Because they can't account for temperatures exceeding 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit, which is the melting point of steal or iron - these office fires can only get to temperatures of 600 to may be 1,200 degrees."
But the much-maligned NIST did address this. From the NIST site:
"NIST investigators and experts from the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) and the Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEONY)—who inspected the WTC steel at the WTC site and the salvage yards—found no evidence that would support the melting of steel in a jet-fuel ignited fire in the towers prior to collapse. The condition of the steel in the wreckage of the WTC towers (i.e., whether it was in a molten state or not) was irrelevant to the investigation of the collapse since it does not provide any conclusive information on the condition of the steel when the WTC towers were standing."
Also from NIST:
"Under certain circumstances it is conceivable for some of the steel in the wreckage to have melted after the buildings collapsed. Any molten steel in the wreckage was more likely due to the high temperature resulting from long exposure to combustion within the pile than to short exposure to fires or explosions while the buildings were standing."
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
That would be shown in this photo:
http://z9.invisionfree.com/debunking...ost&id=7371620
Finally, Mr. Gage had this to say about the nature of the collapse:
"It's very technical evidence - in the case of the twin towers for instance we were told that the upper section above the point of jet plane impact, the 12-story section of building, drove the rest of the building down due to structural weakening by fire, but that's not what the videos show. What the videos show is that the upper section is telescoping or collapsing in on itself in four seconds and is then completely gone - a mini controlled demolition if you will. After that what we see is the rest of the building tearing itself apart at nearly freefall acceleration - in 12 seconds."
When I look at the following video (which supposedly support's Gage's assetions), that's not what I see. Look at the footage starting at 9:09:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIgoXQWiSlM
Forgive me, but you seem to be missing the point. The abstract says "The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic". So if the science is sound and the authenticity of the samples are sound the question remains, what is ANY kind of high energy material of a thermitic nature doing in the sample and where did it come from? Paint does not contain material of a thermitic nature. None of the materials used in the construction of the towers or b7 use thermitic material(as far as I'm aware). As I understand it the "spheres" represent a 'fingerprint' of the thermitic reaction. i.e. they are only there due to the thermite that has reacted. This boils down to proving the authenticity of the samples beyond reasonable doubt...
Dear Ron Mossad.
Congratulations on the obfuscations and misinformation/disinformation campaign you have undertaken on your site. Clearly, not a modicum of sense to be found, unless you can sense that this is a rather fishy 'debate' and your bland patronising agumentation marks you out as being a particularly virulent character.
The 9/11 plot was not because of rogue Muslim elements alone, it was the CIA clandestine service along with other intelligence agencies (rather telling when someone talks about intelligence agencies and intelligence communities - that they know what they are talking about - as you may know; you are very suspicious) and as some of your earlier pages have already pointed out, at least to some extent: the Jewish and Catholic mafia (knights of Malta - oh, but you don't mention that do you) in America; the neoconservatives (although J & C mafia probably covers those shysters); CIA; FBI; ISI; Mossad and the NY port authority, FAA, Kroll, Marsh & Maclennan; you know, the list goes on and on in more nuance details that a good and thorough investigation would uncover to its extent entirely.
But you are probably happy with the Kean commission, or would at least appear to be, and it fits with your retarded narrative. But Kean is an oil-man first and foremost, and after Heinz Kissinger was vetoed to head the commission, this sly dog with direct links to OSB through his delta-hess dealings into Capsian oil markets took charge.
But you don't strike me as a person willing to discuss detail in any academic rigorous process.
In fact the whole history is there: the BCCI scandal; the Iran-Contra-affair; the Carlyle Group. Honestly, you must be a raving-loony to believe that this could have happened without governmental foreknowledge.
The actual question is: did 'they' (see above) allow the plot to happen, or did 'they' actively participate in it?
...And even that is just a matter of semantics.
Good day to you, I should forgive you for your hideous sins, but on this occasion, considering the millions of innocent deaths that you are condoning by your deliberate ignorance and cognitive dissociation, really, I hope you and every single person who defends treason will meet your come-uppence, as I am sure you eventually will, and indeed, have!
Yours Faithfully, an informed and concerned citizen of the 'globalised' society.
ps. You do not have a leg to stand-on, nor an argument that can evaluate - all - of the facts.
RonMossad, as NIST themselves finally admitted, building 7 collapsed at free fall speed for over 2 seconds. If this was not due to explosives, please tell us what else could have been the cause?
After reading your post here, I too, would like my time back. You don't say anything or make any compelling argument at all, yet you accuse Niels Harrit of doing the same.
First of all, you dismiss "contaminated" thermite samples, and I understand that this is not optimal. It is, however, all that we have considering massive amounts of evidence has been destroyed and coming forward to ask questions was largely discouraged by society and politicians. I suppose that your counter argument is that some conspiracy loon was able to cook up a form of industrial thermite that has yet to be matched in his basement?
You continue to play semantics in your argument, and this may work on the feeble-minded and misinformed, but for the rest of us you will need to be more compelling. A good example of this is picking on the word "reminded." In these contexts it is well known that the material in question was not something seen before. Thermite and nano-thermite have been seen before. So of course they are reminiscent. Do you also enjoy my bout of semantics? Two can play that child's game. Immediately below that example you continue your shenanigans with the word suggest. At this point, your entire day's rebuttal is approaching dispensable. You would do better not to give up your day job.
Then, when you banter about a lack of identifying the material for what it specifically is, anyone with any sense about them will have had enough - I know I have. I mean, it's just ridiculous - the report concludes it will not specify what TYPE or FORM of thermite they are dealing with. That is obvious. You act like nothing is identified be it a basketball or a cheeseburger. Grow up.
The truthers as everyone calls them, at least those who really pursue truths, are not out to pick details out of the rubble and balance an entire theory on a few ideas. They want answers, and they want urgency. Your demeanor here shows me that you only care to prove people wrong. This hardly seems logical to me. Your supposed "100 other issues" are things I would like to hear. Your preceding questions have fairly simple answers from the research I've done on the topic.
These buffoons who point at Zionist regimes and other crap are missing the point entirely - please don't confuse me as one of that party.
Not that I wish to argue with your conclusion which I feel to be correct but I just want to point out, in the interests of completeness, that the fires caused by the planes produced enough heat to detonate the supposed nano-thermite therefore no explosive charge is needed.
So did they plant Nanothermite on ALL the upper building columns? They would have had to, there's no way they could have so precisely targeted the planes that only the planted floors got hit with the fires.
Which destroys your theory because there would have been columns found in the wreckage from lower floors that DIDN'T ignite with significant amounts of unignited nanothermite on them. Was not found.
Besides, the fires and planes accomplished what your nanothermite would have! Weakened the structure enough to initiate a gravity driven collapse.
Good luck & keep writing such awesome content.
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